Balance patch
| Character | Changed | Detail |
| Shared | Eclipse | – 5% chance of 6sec superarmor when hit
⇒ 6sec in PvE/ 3sec in PvP – 5 sec invincibility when killed ⇒ 3 sec |
| Lord Knight | Auto Guard | – PvP Activation time 0sec ⇒ 14sec |
| Wind Snaker |
Swift Kicks | – Physical Attack increase method changed
– lvl1 3% of M.Atk⇒ P.Atk +300 – lvl2 6% of M.Atk ⇒ P.Atk +400 – lvl3 9% of M.Atk ⇒ P.Atk +500 – lvl4 12% of M.Atk ⇒ P.Atk +600 |
| Grand Archer | Ace in the hole | – Changed so camera looks forward when casted |
| Veteran Commander | Victory Survival Strategy | – Changed so Overheat doesn’t consume HP after certain HP
(Ex. At passive lvl4: HP decreases until 20% when using overheat at HP 21) |
| Blade Master | Dash Jump zzzz | – Hit time increased |
| Yama Raja | Spirit Enhancement | – Magic Attack increase method changed
– lvl 1 6% of P.Atk ⇒ M.Atk +300 – lvl2 8% of P.Atk ⇒ M.Atk +400 – lvl3 10% of P.Atk ⇒ M.Atk +500 – lvl4 12% of P.Atk ⇒ M.Atk +600 |
| Add | DP usage skill | – DP consumption when awakened 25% ⇒ 20% |
| Diabolic Esper | Void Field | – Field open 3347% ⇒ 2115%
– Field dmg 186% ⇒ 19% – Additional hits changed from max 100MP consumption ⇒Max 50MP consumption – Restrain duration from additional hits 4s ⇒ 2s |
| Moonlight Rhapsody | – ESP shock 3099% ⇒ 2506%
– 1 stack 465% ⇒ 301% – 2 stack 930% ⇒ 602% – 3 stack 1395% ⇒ 903% – PvP modifiers decreased |
|
| Dynamo Configuration
– Reverse Field |
– Range decreased
– Gravity Field 290% ⇒ 179% – Reverse Gravity field 290% ⇒ 179% |
|
| Seal of Time | – [Enhanced] skill effect changed
>> Debuff time decreased to 60sec ⇒ Dungeon debuff time changed to 30sec |
|
| Dynamo Configuration – Space distortion(crack) | – Distortion 214% ⇒ 143%
– Additional hit 214% ⇒ 64% – PvP modifiers decreased |
|
| Reverse Stigma | – Reverse Stigma 1662% ⇒ 1290%
– PvP modifiers increased – Forced teleport 167% ⇒144% – Forced teleport pvp modifiers decreased |
|
| Nasod Armor Mode – Overlimit | – Per level stat fixed.
>> MP gain increase by n% per lvl ⇒ Gain 10% MP of skill used >> DP gain increase by n% per lvl ⇒ Gain 10% DP of skill used – lvl 1 Nasod Armor Command attack +35% ⇒ 40% – lvl 2 Nasod Armor Command attack +40% ⇒ 50% – lvl 3 Nasod Armor Command attack +45% ⇒ 60% – lvl 4 Nasod Armor Command attack +55% ⇒ 70% |
|
| Time Control | – skill cooldown rate per lvl fixed to 30%
– lvl 1 natural MP recovery increase : 0.5 ⇒ 0.25 – lvl 2 natural MP recovery increase : 0.75 ⇒ 0.5 – lvl 3 natural MP recovery increase : 1.0 ⇒ 0.75 – lvl 4 natural MP recovery increase : 1.25 ⇒ 1
– lvl 1 DP cost decrease : 3% ⇒ 4% – lvl 2 DP cost decrease : 6% ⇒ 6% – lvl 3 DP cost decrease : 10% ⇒ 8% – lvl 4 DP cost decrease : 15% ⇒ 10% |
|
| Mind Circle | – Awakened : MP recovery +9 ⇒ 4
– Awakened : MP recovery +12 ⇒ 6 – Awakened : MP recovery +15 ⇒ 8 – Awakened : MP recovery +18 ⇒ 10
– Unawakened : DP recovery +9 ⇒ 4 – Unawakened : DP recovery +12 ⇒ 6 – Unawakened : DP recovery +15 ⇒ 8 – Unawakened : DP recovery +18 ⇒ 10 |
|
| ESP | – Damage reduction rate per level fixed to 50% | |
| Time Trouble | – Void Field restraint duration 50% increase ⇒ 20% increase
– Reverse Stigma Recall target MP burn -30 ⇒ -10 |
Diabolic Esper: The hell all ya keep givenya mah dem neff all da time.
Me too KOG: You really like screwing people do ya. Just fix VP man, are you need Masahiro Sakurai to teach you whats balance.
Hackurai is the one guy KOG can claim themselves better than at this point.
Let’s not point them in his direction. Lest we get Pit and Dark Pit as the next collaboration characters…..
DE is really dead now.
DiE=rekted
These nerfs are a bit crazy even though DiE was extremely OP when released. I would be more angry if I was a DiE player that KoG is ruining his viability in PvE.
finally a real nerf to die free skill span gg kong
nerf to rose,rena range & mp gain from x comand when??
rose delet when??
After chung and raven xD
still not enough to make him unplayable, even as a DiE main i agree with these nerfs, tho seal of time still could have gone a different direction imo tho i dont even use it lol, but uhh… yea, he needed these nerfs, but that wont stop smarter players from playing him, at this point with what alll characters can do, he’s still high tier lol
If you actually played DiE you’d know he was becoming shittier by the day already. If you’re not a cancerspam the class is garbage, they’re forcing us to play the way that keeps plaguing the arena and receiving nerfs.
Not all of these nerfs was needed, he’s practically ruined for PvE now.
OMG DiE=Rip :)))
It’s been a ride
We had fun
We had shining moments
But it’s time for us to move on
To let the bottom classes move up
Farewell, top tier chair.
You guys are acting as if he’s being nerfed to pre-renewal CN levels.
Come on. He’s going down to mid tier at the lowest.
judging from the add’s nerfs
now we have an IS – homing edition eh?
KOG, your eyes is blind you nerf wrong points on DE -..-
And what would be the right points?
Cause they nerfed a lot of some of DiE more powerful and annoying bits. For one, Moonlight Rhapsody was in long need of a damage nerf. The damage from that debuff was pretty disusing, even in comparison to other 200 MP buff skills. They nerfed basically all his passives, the only buff he got was to his Nasod Armor combos. They even got rid of his increase resource gain, now he just has resource refund passives.
While making him significantly worse in PvE
KoG is pretty bad at keeping their PvP nerfs out of other modes of play
Kog is really trying this time guys, but still need some things, first and more important, pvp limit damage, like damage reduction and other stats, magical and fisical damage need to have a limit in pvp, armor break need a nerf to around 20 or 40% in pvp, Yr still nedd a nerf in wolf secret art(damage or spirit usage), BH mp recovery with fire debuff nedd a nerf, And obviously, Add skill damage nerf is good, but would be also wise to balance this with a increase of his basic comand damage. Elsword Vitality aura need to have a bigger usage while is activated, and red aura need some new features, like cooldown or something, chung freutiner state could last a little longer (6>8 or 10 hits). Ip paladin have nothing of tanker except for his reasonable element resistance, so what about change his Critical damage chance reduction passive (30%) to about 20% of critical damage reduction, would be a lot more fair with caracter who doesn’t have a guild critic buff, caracter critic buff or OoR, who completely ignore that passi,ve also, also, a 5% oh recover 1% of hp in commands only, that could really fix the caracter “tank” atributtes. GM and Lk also could have a Hp recovery method, but of course nothing that can recovery that much and break pvp, and lower the basic damage oh this caracter a little, something like 400% of basic x damage to 350%. Thats is all i remember now anyway.
Woah woah? Reduce IP’s critical resistance further?? It’s fine the way it is and technically useless if I’m fighting at higher levels of PVP. Instead if decreasing it, it should be increased back to 50%.
IP’s crit resist passive needs a buff, not a nerf.
They still haven’t nerfed Ara and Rose, or buff VP -.-
12/01? why not today? lmao
what the hell KoG why you nerf my soft DiE
When the hell did they nerf LK’s auto guard CD in PvP to 0 secs?
And why is it back to 14 sec CD.
I’m tempted to ask if this is backwards.
Because you can cancel the auto guard with roll. It was being punished for catching LK tbh. I found it rather annoying myself when you combo a LK and he just counters you with auto guard into roll. I agree with the 14 second cooldown.
Buuutt lk already has difficulty catching like auto guard was annoying asf but it was one of lks very few options.
people forget about his boner blade huh?
just get into vitality and build up MP for it… I did it all the time on my LK (who I recently deleted cause he got boring)
Oh fuck.
KOG’s finally nerfing DE. Their most popular character.
KOG’s either saying “Fuck it.” and taking the cyanide capsule, or they’re really confident in the next character.
Oh yeah. There’s going to be a new character. Just take a look at this relevant information:
Eve: December 18 2008
Chung: December 23 2010
Ara: December 20 2012
Add: December 19 2013
Lu and Ciel: December 18 2014
Rose: December 17 2015
Starting with Ara we’ve got a 4 year chain running. Why are they going to break it now when we know the game is dying and the story is ending? There’s nothing else KOG knows how to add as major new content…..
You forgot your beloved Elesis.
Because she was released on July 18 2013. And Raven was released on April 24 2008.
Both of those years got two character releases. However, the trend is that new characters get released on the third Thursday of December.
???: December 16 2016
Yeeeeeeeeeep, here we go again. Pass the bleach, we’re having memes tonight.
-implying that Add is the most popular character when the main reason he does exists at all is because of Eve.
only birthday they even care to celebrate is eve’s anyway….
as if they’re saying “come play eve despite the treatment she gets!”
KOG themselves said a few years ago that Elbrat is the character with the most total created characters (I guarantee you most of them were abandoned when they made that statement.) and that Add is the one with the most level capped characters made.
Although Eve being the most popular character worldwide at one point and being the update that singlehandedly saved the game from cancelation at the time is well documented and KOG blatantly made Add as a Rule 63 Eve to try to cash in on her popularity, the current situation is that Add is the most popular character amongst the people who still play the game.
And the two major factors to his rise are:
-He’s a shitty edgelord character. Not as common in Korean games as they are in Japanese ones. So the fans of that archtype flocked to Add.
-He takes zero skill to play and most active PVPers still have no idea how exactly to fight him. Thus, making him “OP”.
And now DE (Read: his only current overpowered class.) is getting nerfed. Hard.
i wish people like you would understand what “skill” really means in terms like this.
no character takes “no skill’ to play because in a laymen’s term, skill is the amount of effort that is used to play each character.
if you were to say “Add takes less effort than most characters” that would work.
if any character at all takes little to no effort it would be Rose.
especially CR and FR.
rip DiE
Next Ara, Luciel and Rose :D
I hope
Some of those nerfs for DiE are abit too far rip.
Get fucking murdered DiE.
You deserved it, maybe now you will finally learn how it feels to play like the other characters who don’t have a hundred mp bars and ridiculous mp/dp gain.
Why don’t say that to the lovely Rose and Ara? Im pretty, pretty sure that those characters needs [PLENTY] of nerfs.
//Hugs DE child close//
Sure. Inform me when Lu/Ciel gets murdered
if you ask me, elesis, ara, luciel, and add all need the nerf hammer more than they got…
His MP and DP gain got nerfed like crazy, this doesnt help the fact that his MP gain will still be high, its just his Damage is going to be in the shitter
DiE is still strong. He’s just not a “xd lul I press button u ded” class anymore. The damage nerfs are more than justified with the amount of ressources he gains and how he can continuously cycle them.
Now there’s actually room for counterplay against non +11/12 players, because you can actually tank without dying in 5 seconds. Infinites and x drops gain more value for DiE and push the technical side of the class more. There will still be a way to play him without really knowing anything, but at least there is now room for opposing players to strike back.
*looks at DIE’s nerf*Kog really loves to fk me right in the ahole
Why does DE keeps getting really BAD nerfs?
It’s difficult to dignify this comment with a response, but… here goes nothing!
…
Oh, I just realized that explaining such a concept to most DiE mains would take a sixty-page thesis and more effort than I’m willing to waste. =/
Ouch
are niggas really complaining about DiE nerfs? Pathetic, all of you.
they forgot to reduce the height of the hitbox =_= only complaint
-that should even be remotely considered
Yes, I am going to complain, and complain, and complain
Maybe you’ve heard of dungeons. Maybe a little thought entered your tiny brain, that people might play DiE outside of PvP and don’t want to deal with these garbage PvP balances? Think on that and then decide who the pathetic one is
I PvE on my DiE alot and this has just completed trashed PvE for me :(
I quit.
and never come back DiE user
Go fuck yourself, salty asshat
I’m keeping my DE just the way he is.
maybe you could learn some skill with your autism class for once…
This asshat DW user all u do is spam with that +11/+12 whatever it is, and yet you still complain
lmao magicspice, pretty much every class is autistic and takes no skill, telling someone to get some skill for their autistic class applies to every other class on this damn game.
I’ve put up with KOG’s bullshit since Trapping Ranger came out. I’ve long earned the right to complain.
As for classes not needing skill to use, try telling that to VP. You know, the class that is said to be the worst one?
Have you seen the damage on her void balls? Every VP I see can loop ^X and >>^x no problem and kills in a few seconds. While I agree that she could use a rebalancing and a buff, what donk said is correct… And its mostly thanks to the gear and rediculous damage in pvp. Hell even spar gear does damage.
i could say the same for u jack-ass :v besides some of the other classes need nerfs too ive played LK 2 years IP 1 year before add was a thing and now i play him so DiE is not the only one who needs to be nerfed this hard :v
~sips tea~ DiE’s dead af naw all KOG needs to do is insanly kill Rose too
They won’t do it because they only balance around KR players, and the KR playerbase is still boycotting Rose.
It’s the same reason why Chung and Ara keep getting buffed. They may be common in NA, but there’s not very many of them on KR. YR in particular hasn’t shaken off the stigma of being a bad class since she was CN levels of gimped when she was first released.
IP deserves buffs :D
Goddamn, RIP every DiE ever…
Some of the nerfs are just insult to injury too, like Void Fields additional hits damage nerf. For real KoG?
Those percentages are garbage. All he’s going to do now is feed.
still no buff of vp
why do you take it all out on DiE but not Rose? Rose should be the one getting the nerfs!
And Ara. Let’s not forget about Ara.
Ara deserves to be overpowered for she is super cute.
She should be buffed. And VP too. Then she and Aisha can rule over the lesser beings together~.
Sounds like you’re into femdom Endy.
But Aisha and Ara are too submissive for that. You want someone with a more domineering personality. Like Elesis or Lu. :3
The fuck are you talking about? Aisha beats up Elbrat all the time for being a disrespectful little shit and VP is all about having a demon god at her command. She’s the dominant type.
And while I can’t speak for adult Lu since she only exists ingame for 30 seconds (A shame. I’ve actually grown to like her design.), loli cancer Lu isn’t “domineering”. She’s “I’m going to act cute to get whatever I want!” And it’s only been shown to work on Ciel.
well, finally a good nerf for DiE, you can do a burst damage in a single combo, but well, so much people will say this the worst, but remember CN. just take it and move forward
Fucking hell. DiE is almost useless in PvE again. Rhapsody was the one thing that really kept him on the table, and now the thing got nerfed when it wasn’t even a huge problem before. Void field is dead.
Void field was never a huge issue in the first place. Did they really have to make it a shitty PvE skill instead of changing only its PvP numbers
I’m not a PvP player at all. And I’m still triggered by how KoG consistently fails to separate their PvE and PvP nerfs
I’m not one to say this game is dying, but the quality of these balances are actually shit
this guy gets it. the fact that KoG lacks the prior knowledge to separate all these modifications to skills from PvP and PvE infuriates in ways that the english language cannot comprehend. therefore i will resort to french.
cette putain de conneries ici va sérieusement me faire blesser quelqu’un.
They can’t have skills work completely different between modes. Also you are quite a moron if you’re complaining that much about Moonlight Rhapsody. It wasn’t even nerfed that badly. You’re still doing 300% a burst, it is still gonna do a ton of damage for PvE. Also, Void Field isn’t even for damage, that really shouldn’t matter.
So annoying DE players, stop being ignorant entitled children. You’re nerfs aren’t even that bad. You got a lot of them, but most of them weren’t even that huge.
Say that to the void field’s additional hits being smacked from 186% – which didn’t do alot, to 19% and also space crack being diminished to 46%… @ 19% is less than CBS’s needle’s cutting skill which also does jack shit to people.
“Void field isn’t about damage”, it’s for damage and restriction moron.
they have the ability to make skills function differently in PvE and PvP just like how it says SoT revives you with 50% HP in PvE but revives you with 30% HP in PvP. they just don’t care that much to do so when it comes to the damage between PvE and PvP.
all they really care about is how fast people can fill their pockets up trying to achieve +11s, +12s and +13s.
DiE’s moonlight rhapsody in PvE can one-shot Heroic Dungeon Mobs with a +9 Dragonic Set, Dragonic Aura and three stacks of a previous moonlight rhapsody if it cant do that anymore, its fucked
The game is donna die soon if KoG doesnt stop with the unnecesary nerfs
sigh. They just had to go and nerf Swift Kicks, didn’t they. 12% of my matk was so much better than a crappy +600…
OMG! YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES! Finally kog did something well, and now nerf BM shadow step!!! or luciel all clas
I laugh every single time when someone thinks shadow step is OP.
I laugh every single time when someone thinks the new shadow step is BALANCED.
You should play better against Ravens then
Playing better has nothing to do with something that constantly makes all your hits null and irrelevant the second you attempt to catch. You can play however godly you want to, but the second you even so much as to try to hit Raven, instantly goes into Shadow Step and gives him a free catch. GUT. FUCKING. SHADOW. STEP. ALREADY.
Sounds like either lag or you getting baited hard.
Struggling against shadow step doesn’t mean the skill is OP.
It’s not lag, homie.
There is a such thing as core *cough* *cough*. But, even core aside, you know the skill has iframes when you activate it, right? That’s why it easily negates catches. Lag has nothing to do with why that happens and neither does being baited.
I agree, struggling against a skill doesn’t mean it’s OP. But when almost all of your attempted catches are negated because someone can break it the second it happens, that’s not struggling, that’s legit you being fucked for attempting to play the damn game.
Yes shadow step has i-frames. The issue is i-frames? Backflip shot has i-frames, back blast has i-frames, roll used to have i-frames (although shadow step can be used aggressively). Raven core procs when he thrust you with shadow step. If you get hit with the thrust, that’s on you. There’s nothing cheap about that since it’s avoidable. Honestly I find Eve’s core more annoying than Raven’s because the hits last way longer than Raven’s.
One example, normally when I get hit with core+step, I’m in the air (not on the ground because your asking to get caught). You can use a stoic move/SA to the catch them instead or escape as soon as you hit the ground. This works sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t work out the way you wanted it to. When you look at it, shadow step is Raven’s main catching tool. The one of the only annoyances you have to deal with. I don’t really see it as cheap catching move imo. Maybe it’s class dependent on how well you can deal with shadow step. The real problem for me with Ravens is their burst damage (One-shot crow).
As for Ravens randomly shadow stepping when you catch them. The only thing that would be is either lag (latency) or you’re against a BM and you hit him from the back (passive ability). Or maybe you hit them and you didn’t follow up fast enough and they shadow stepped away.
That’s not the entire issue of the skill. That’s not the only thing that makes the skill game breaking. I could point out the fact his grenades gives the opponent no reaction time so there’s no possible way to avoid being caught once they hit the ground, the reverse hit box it has that shouldn’t be present, the fact it has super armor, shadow frames, and iframes, etc. But yes, one of the MAIN issues is the iframe the skill gives at the start of the skill. Why? Because of the fact that all of those other things that I pointed out, as game breaking as they may be, you can find ways to counter them to some degree or another. In the case of this particular issue there is no way to deal with that. The second you even so much as hit him when the skill is off cool down (the lack of one it has to begin with) there will be immediate retaliation.
” Back flip shot has i-frames, back blast has i-frames, roll used to have i-frames (although shadow step can be used aggressively).”
You know what happened to roll, back flip shot, etc, right? They all had either their iframes removed OR what lead to them being able to break a combo the instant it started was removed. Just look at the balance patch on this exact page and you’ll see they did that to roll. Look at balance patches in the past and you’ll see that the iframes for roll was gutted. The same thing goes for back flip shot “Invincibility frames removed so that it only applies a split second before and during the arrow shots”. Back blast should have its iframes removed as well and so should Rose’s Back step since we’re on that topic. Just because other characters have skills of similar natures doesn’t mean that it’s justified or not game breaking. Back step is just as game breaking and so is (to a lesser extent) back blast.That doesn’t make it fair. That doesn’t justify it either.
Maybe I should show you an example of what I’m talking about? There are tons of examples on the Youtubes. Even though I really don’t feel like it. Once again, because Shadow Step has iframes, when you cast the skill that means when he gets hit he can ignore what would be a hit stun in any other situation and strife away to safety. But, because the skill inflicts a hard flinch to whatever it hits, and the fact that the skill has reverse hit boxes, when he strifes away he can still hit you and leave you immobile for a long enough period of time to recover and catch. So to say “If you get hit with the thrust, that’s on you. There’s nothing cheap about that since it’s avoidable.” is complete bullshit. Try avoiding something that activates while you’re in the beginning animation of a combo or the animation of a combo or strike period. You won’t recover fast enough to avoid it much less realize your combo has been broken fast enough to retaliate.
This has nothing to do with lag at all. It’s the pure fact that the skill has a specific frame (which has been removed on most characters by the way and should be removed universally) which enables him to do this.
The grenades give no reaction time? The grenades are cast more than a half second after the initial skill is used. It’s funny because the grenades are the least annoying thing about Raven’s shadow step. You’re going to say there is no way to counter shadow step even though I gave you an one example? Not a hard counter, but something to deal with thrust in case you did get hit. Not responding to shadow step quick enough or playing around it doesn’t mean there’s no reaction time. Either way you shouldn’t be playing against shadow step based on solely reaction time anyways. That probably goes for the majority of active skills in Elsword.
I seriously don’t understand when you are saying hitting him will cause him to the escape out of shadow step. How is that even possible when you HIT him? If he shadow stepped away, it’s either you didn’t hit him, BM’s passive, or core (server dependent). UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should he escape using shadow step with any of the three I mentioned. This is why I keep telling you it’s either lag or you didn’t hit him. If you hit him during i-frames, YOU DIDN’T HIT/CATCH HIM! As for lag, It’s not like the opponent needs to lag hard but the distance can conflict with latency. His step can be COUNTERED. If you’re somehow interrupted for whatever reason because of the skill, it’s not the i-frames that caused it. It doesn’t matter either it’s i-frames or stoic you’ll still get hit since you can’t hit stun the enemy and he can hit stun you during the skill. I sure if the skill was stoic instead of i-frames you would probably still get caught against Ravens using shadow step a lot.
And noticed how I said “USED to have i-frames”. I knew Elboy;s roll has stoic. I already seen that patch a year ago. The only thing i-frames can do that super armor can’t is one, being completely invulnerable to all damage means avoiding nukes or homing projectiles that would kill you otherwise(e.g. guide arrow, Apollyon). And two, escape moves that would otherwise catch you if you’re in superarmor (e.g. All 3 of Ara’s suppression because muh stun).
Yes the skill is avoidable. I already told you there is no instance of him spontaneously shadow stepping out of your combo. i-frames isn’t the issue. The hit-box you mentioned on the other hand I never dealt with but if there is a problem with the hit box then that should be fixed to worked correctly but so far I never dealt with that problem (remember WS’s old nature force hit-box? That was actually BS). I’m skeptical of you claim.
Anyways you getting hit with shadow step is still your mistake and I doubt something like an unfair hit-box is responsible for you getting caught the majority of the time. But like I said I never seen shadow step not hitting/working as intended since it never happened to me against Ravens in PvP. I still don’t agree with KoG removing i-frames since it wasn’t game breaking unlike what you have said but whatever. I simply don’t find the skill “overpowered”.
– Firstly, the hit animation of the grenades are cast way earlier than actual the animations of the grenades and they’re cast way faster than half of a second. How do I know this? Because if you hit him at a very specific time when the commands are input he won’t go into the animation but you’ll still receive a hit stun instantaneously where the grenades would have dropped despite there not being indication of the grenades dropping. This can happen when lag isn’t present. This actually tends to happen most often when FPS is most stable.
-Secondly, I’m not basing my judgements off of what is considered “annoying”. I’m basing them off of I find is reasonable and what I find is not. Never once did I state that because such and such is “annoying” it should be removed or shouldn’t be applied to such and such.
-Thirdly, when did I say there’s no way to counter Shadow Step? I quote myself “Because of the fact that all of those other things that I pointed out, as game breaking as they may be, you can find ways to counter them to some degree or another.” You CAN counter Shadow Step. But there are some aspects of the skill which are not able to be countered. Such as the grenade throw and being caught the instant you try to start a combo. If you’re going to quote me, do it correctly. Mind you, because you can counter some aspects of the skill that doesn’t all of a sudden mean the skill is fair. You can counter some of the most bullshit characters such as Add and Crimson Rose. Does that make them fair to fight against? No. Also, it’s impossible to counter something when you’re amidst animation. It takes the character a small window of time to recover from the animation frames of a combo or an initial strike. So, not only is that not reactionary based (since you can’t react to it period), that’s not even close to being along the lines of what I’ve said.
At this point you’re just ignoring what I’m saying. The skill has iframes as I’ve pointed out, no? At the very start of the skill when the skill is cast that’s when the iframes are triggered, no? If you hit him attempting to catch and the user trigger spams Shadow Step because the skill has iframes it’ll ignore what would be a hit flinch and he’ll proceed to go into the Shadow Step animation. It’s not that hard to understand. That’s why it’s purely not lag influenced. Sure, lag can influence the situation. But, that’s not the sole reason for it happening. Other characters have a similar “thing” along those lines as well.
Chung’s Heavy Stance being a prime example. When you hit him and he triggers the blast from Heavy Stance he’ll have a short period of iframes. If you try to proceed and hit him, rather it be a special active skill, or a combo, your what would be a hit flinch in any other situation won’t work, in some cases special active skills will go right through him. He can then retaliate with a skill; most Chungs use Back Blast in this situation. Raven has the same situation as this. If you hit him and the user trigger spams Shadow Step the iframes can activate causing him to ignore what would be a hit flinch and get out of your combo. You’re trying to apply absolute logic, assuming everything works as it’s intended and designed to work. Which is why you’re probably not understanding the explanation. Or refusing to understand it .
I was agreeing with you for the most part. But, I just felt the need to explain myself as I wrote that. Iframes though have potential do much more than become invulnerable to damage. It in short also makes your frames “invisible” which also causes not just the damage but what would be a hit flinch to not have effect. As I’ve explained earlier.
Once again, how do you avoid something that activates AFTER you assume your combo has already started? Because in ANY OTHER circumstance versus ANY OTHER character (except Crimson Rose or Iron Paladin, etc) that’s how the outcome would have been.The iframes are one of the main the issues and that’s one of the reasons why.
Yes, the hit boxes have “reverse hit boxes”. Meaning it’ll hit from the back as it will the front at the same time. This new “feature” if you will was added some time during the evolution patch. It’s easy to overlook. Which is why this problem still persists today. Raven isn’t the only character that can do this either, mind you. To cite an example, Eve COULD do this with her Nasod Junk combo. If you were to approach her too close to the back despite the skill having animation in the front it would also hit in the back simultaneously. IF you’re too close behind someone and they just so happen to be combo’ing the air for whatever reason you will receive a hit flinch. Those are two examples. There are plenty others if you’d like me to go down the list? Also, do you or were you around for the Polar bear one piece costume? IF so, do you remember when the costume allowed your hit box to be wider than how it was supposed to be enabling you to hit from the back as well as the front at the same time while wearing the costume? This is the same thing.
Iframes are indeed game breaking. You’re giving a tech a tier of frames that special activates have and should only have I feel. Which is why I feel they should be removed. Just like how various other mechanics and gimmicks were removed or kept on situational skills such as Power Stun now being almost entirely exclusive to Hyper Actives because they had too many gimmicks or “too good” of gimmicks. Various characters used to have techs that provided Power Stun. But Power Stun in itself is a very ridiculous mechanic that techs should not have because not only do they remove most of if not all buffs, they stun for a longer period of time, etc, etc. It’s the same for iframes. iframes gives a load of gimmicks that shouldn’t be allowed unless the skill is a special active. Hence why KOG has started to remove iframes from various techs that have had it at some point in time in the past. Though that judgement seems to be somewhat influenced by the Korean community itself.
Apparently nerfs to everyone is considered balance, *Clears throat* No it’s not.
while everyone is celebrating about DE. here i am still confused why the fck VP has no buff or anything. ( dem u KOG if u cant buff her at least make her boobs more larger LOL )
Mastermind now?
The nerf really isn’t that bad though. Nothing that really sets in heavy except for Mind Circle and SoT. In which people should just adapt. I think claimjng him dead is a bold statement. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Lol, so can I get my MM’s chaser fixed? It’s now buggy af and doesn’t even have the range it’s supposed to 80% of the time, like ya use it and it doesn’t even go auto target people right in you face half the time. #freeMMfromtrashteir.
Wait. Excuse me? DiE dead? Ladies and gents you’re all missing something, yes his skills got nerfed like crazy but not their range allowing catches, why am I mentioning this? Because DiE already had the strongest Nasod Armor Combos and they BUFFED that, get them in his Z combo and watch their health melt… Although I do wish that his Seal of Time and Reverse Stigma mana burn wasn’t nerfed but hey that’s just me.
Also still waiting for a VP and STr buff… still waiting and praying…
we did get something out of it, a damage decrease across the board
they’re still not nerfing things like the range and hitboxes (or stuff like BM’s fucking evac or shadow step in general), but at least he doesn’t do as much damage when he does get his BS catches…
who would waste DP in a nasod armor combo for DiE? seriously?
Question… have you TRIED using his DP combo in PvP? That thing is crazy strong and I might even go as far as saying the highest damaging DP combo, LP’s DP combos are a good second but they are good for forcing manabreaks and to make some combos, DiE’s Z combo does massive burst damage.
I watched my DiE’s Nasod Armor Half Health in a sparring match, 1/4 in a real match
Nice, KOG seems to be able to nail things every now and then.
All that’s left is a slight VP buff, Ara nerfs and Rose’s deletion~
Get ready to feed my RF, DiE mains. With those low percentages all you’ll be doing is feeding me mana/awk for me to fist you. (lmao at Field dmg 186% ⇒ 19% finally this skill is dead, Void field should never have been a thing).
ABOUT FUCKING TIME THEY NERFED ESPER!!!
Autism Tracer’s route long had it coming anyway
The day when DW gets a shit ass unecesary nerf
You sound salty as hell with how much you’re riding me…
Do you love my dick that much since you’re being suck an asshole?
Noo..They nerfed too far at DiE..As main DiE these nerfed is not necessary( but I agree range should be decrease at PVP some skills) . I can’t Play PVE well if moonlight gets nerfed. They should normalize all stat at Pvp instead if they really want the PVP balance like normalized stat at ereda Island.
tbh this damage nerf is beyond overkill. DiE is almost unplayable in PVE before this nerf, now this. I have a DiE and Im having a hard time in PVE and I pretty much dont have much damage in pvp either in my +9 compared to my BM/BH/YR which have the same weapon +. Dont know about you guys if you know but I think most of the people here are just hating just because its “Add”
My +11 gets outdamaged by +8/+9’s of other classes in PvE that aren’t DiE’s because his damage is ass in PvE.
S/o to the biased retards here forgetting, DE cannot cancel MB, “where my hitbox at without rhapsody and space crack”, we are forced to stack every stat unlike others who can just stack any two up to how much they want. People also forget DE is paper, also people claiming of this “ridiculous damage” where exactly? I don’t see anyway a DE can 1 shot unlike the rest. Oh yeh he has “hundreds of MP and mana bars” um you realized there’s others with like 500 max MP right? People who also just stand there and gain MP. Now for those who support him being paper with SoT, are you serious? No DE use that anymore cuz it kills you more than save you with the debuff. We have people shooting sht across the map stealing kills by the time a De can attack the monsters already dead lmfao. I got +10, 78% maxi, 8k add, oath of ruin title, and my damage still doesn’t exist close to what others can do. For those who probably saying “stack more add or maxi” tell me where I’ll get the sockets from lmfao, already got 50% DP gain 11% DP consumption, 20% red, 34% MP gain, over 20% all speed. “Godly gain” cuz we actually stack most of our statz unlike the rest. But you know something, the only way I, and I’m sure other DE players would agree, is that everyone else get nerfed to the ground like this except classes like VP(which I think is the only one who would need a little more buff) Finally… For those who saying “let the lower tier rise now instead” you’re very thick up there aren’t you? You claim to want balance and yet you want ” the lower tiers to be above the so called current classes that are top class” smh it’s people like you who is making elsword worse every day.
@xLunatix…Hey, bud. We established that it doesn’t matter how much people try to defend DiE…it always ends in them losing. So stop. DiE is cancer. It doesn’t matter how much paper, or how much he can’t stack one way… the fact of the matter is that up till now he had free catches, free damage and was generally a free fucking class. There is no way to justify the insta-win that this class is. You’re argument is in vain.
Now I do agree that the whole illusion of balance is really a fucked up contradiction. “You claim you want balance yet you want the lower tiers to be above the so called current classes that are top class” I agree with you, and I think a lot of us have thought that. However, don;t blame the people for making the game worse (Unless you are talking about board prices) because all we do is play the game. The ones who make the rules that we have to follow are the ones who are fucking up the game.
Still though can you prove that any of the things I mentioned there is wrong? And I’d love for you to explain what exactly you mean that DE has “up till now he had free catches, free damage, was generally free fucking class” And I hope you’re not saying those things only to DE because I can strongly prove otherwise. And did you saw what I said earlier in my comment? To get a decent gain I had to stack 50% DP gain and 35% mp gain, how is that free again? As for free catches I don’t recall DE starting off with any resources in a match. If you’re referring to his skills, they either cost DP or MP so I don’t see how that’s “free” also. Free damage?…. Moonlight = damage = costs mp. What’s free about that again? Listen I don’t mind range nerf but damage? Really first off there are others that do way worse ex. Rose. No questions asked about that.
Ps: free catch is evacuation from B, Wester shot from CR, things that escapes combos. Etc.
BM*
I love the people who still says DiE is a free class. I’d like you to try and fucking see and get paired up in pvp with CBS/anyclass aiha/IP/anyclass raven/and all those fuckers who thinks their class is balanced and ONLY thinks add is cancer. THIS ISNT DiE’s GLORY DAYS like 2 years back STOP WITH THE BS PLEASE SERIOUSLY.
Adding onto that.. my damage is pretty high in some PvP scenarios with my +11 DiE, 91% maxi and 9k add and other decently stacked stats, like this guy said other classes don’t need to put their stats this high to get good output because their skills are still insanely broken or just in general do high damage with no stats, [cough] falling dragon one shotting people, I still can’t pull out any of his skills to go over 150k not matter how hard I try, when he gets a one shotting skill then tell me lmao. (I have oath aswell) He does have some easy catches but even MM and LP have way easier catches than his, also other classes than add have insanely easy catches and bs clutch moves so i dont know why people don’t complain about those. DiE’s PvE gameplay is absolute ass, I do no damage, a +9 of any other class can out damage me by a few hundred million even with me using the right skills to get maximum damage output, this is just completely making it worse, but nah you people keep trashing on him because you don’t know how to counter something that isn’t hard to avoid.
Still waiting for the day they make Dreadlord playable…
The ONLY real reason you people are spewing shit from your mouths about Add is because you are all fucking bandwagoners that jumped on the Add hate train because it was the “Cool thing to do” at the time. When you are playing a DE, and you have a +10 Raid Weapon, and you STILL get Outdamaged by people running around with +7 weapons and gear, you begin to realize just how unjustified these nerfs are, ESPECIALLY from a PvE aspect. if anyone needed nerfs, hand them to BM, he REALLY needs them. Here is an Idea for KoG: Why not make a PvE only Server, and balance the characters for PvE (or try and FAIL at the whole “Balance” part), and make a PvP only Server, giving everyone PvP “Balance”. this way the PvErs can go about their business, and the salt whores can keep salting about shitty PvP!
oh wait, I forgot, KoG’s collective brain power is less than that of a retarded chicken. guess we can’t expect this kind of innovative thinking any time soon!
Well fucking said.
Tons of shit from a lot of these players prove why this game has one of THE WORST game communities in existence.
Even the rest of the fuckin internet doesn’t hate opinions like some of you do. Hell, a lot of you bitching about gear either HAVE it or WILL get it. Or you play a troll class that don’t need it.
Fucking hypocritical assholes
who the fuck cares about PvE balance.
The PvE in this game is a fucking joke and you can’t lose even if you’re retarded.
It’s just something to make you waste time until you get to the PvP.
Add players complaining about nerf.
I’m enjoying this :D!
and then when ur class gets nerfed ill enjoy your suffering too :D
it’s already nurf and i never complained, just use another class ;D
why should :v im sticking to my roots
my god, so many blindly bitching about DiE’s nerfs…. was his trollbase (not calling it a fanbase) really that fucking large?
from a PvE aspect, yeah, he’s taking a major dive. and I understand that. KOG needs to get it in their fucking heads that PvE and PvP are different
but from a PvP aspect, he needs MORE nerfs. he can easily approach you, can easily run, easily access resources…. the list goes on!
please realize what the fuck you’re talking about before you complain guys. the only case you can defend the damn class (hell the damn character) is in DUNGEONS. His PvP capability has dropped, but it’s nowhere near GONE.
try using a class that requires more skill like VP or CBS and maybe you’ll actually learn that!
Bitch you sick my stomach in so many ways. I hate hearing batty fishes like you complain. OMFG I wish your house would just explode right now. Fucking +11/+12 DW spammer. It takes nothing outa you to just Z spam with that gear u have and teleport all about the place then come back in super armour. DE got none of that shit,he couldnt even take a good hit. DW can tank and hit like a truck and yet you bitchy ass still complains. Stay outa fucking Pvp if u cant handle it
Did you just said VP and CBS requires skills? Don’t make me laugh. Someone that stands and gains MP requires skills? Haha. I’d agree VP need damage buff. I would agree with you with CBS if it was like 2 months ago. Sht that catches you soon as u get up and now has high damage skills, low damage skills you can MB but you’d still get caught when you get up back. Able to switch HP for MP and MP for HP requires so much skills lmfao. I’d also like to say the same to you please realize what the fuck you’re saying before you talk shit. Frankly currently no character/ class requires skills at the moment.
VP and CBS REQUIRES SKILL? oh please stop. DiE can easily approach? YEAH WE WORK FOR OUR FIRST CATCH. easily run? dude really? all characters can easily run. easily access resources? you do know we have to fuckin catch our opponents first before be can have resources do you? you do know that DiE doesnt start with any resource at all? cough* aisha/eve have mana cough*
to the person who said DiE can easily run easily gain resources and easily approach you etc first off you make it sound we dont have to think we have low HP running into battle like o i know im just gonna storm the front and hope everything works we aren’t like that and we don’t gain MP while we stand all we get is 1 MP per second like every class who doesn’t gain shit from standing in the same spot and easily run half of renas classes can run away too and snipe u across the map while gaining HP in the process *cough cough WS* and CBS has a skill that gives her MP for half her HP and seeing how if u don’t constantly MB from CBS you are going find half your HP gone like that and have a lot of laser and shit on your ass with core shit too i can go on but i choose not to shout out to kou and lunatix
If you’re trying to tell me that CBS is op then you’re talking out of your ass. After her mana gain nerfs (which were needed but waaayyyyy overdone) things have been hard. First of all, mana conversion has been nerfed so much that every eve I know is trying to limit themselves to 1 per match. On top of that CBS’ mana gain was nerfed as well. This doesn’t sound too too bad and it isn’t very, but because CBS is such a mana hungry character and her defense is so low I often find myself getting caught with little to no mana which sets up a problem because I die in one combo if I can’t mana break right away. Her hp and defense are low which also sets up even more problems for mana conversion because it uses 15% hp in order to get 60-80 mp. Her hp to mp barely gives back hp compared to how fast she loses it, and it is only usable every 30 seconds which is really no help because matches usually last me about a minute.
On top of all of this her skills feed mana while doing little to no damage. Core makes things even worse. While it helps with catching, it feeds mana like hell and it’s damage is not very strong at all. The lasers you complain about feed mana and all suck ass (except for giga [only good in 2v2] which is op ATM ?) Anyways, in matches it sucks because even if the CBS is the one attacking she will still gain less mana than the opponent, and also because her damage is low and defense doesn’t exist.
*side note* if you think all VP has to do is run and charge you probably have never seen one in your life (which is likely) because 1 they are too slow to run and 2 no one lets another person just stand there gaining mana unless you’re dumb. And don’t even get me started on teleport. 10mp / 2 sec cd for a skill that always has the same length and is easy to read and is a waste of mana. Also even while vp has mana…. how to catch
VP has always required skill even when she was outright the best class. Did you know how to block Hell Stone’s launch so it does full damage? Neither did most VP players.
Now she requires skill since she’s been gutted ever since they nerfed gravity ball’s launch, reducing her catching game to that of a base Aisha.
All these people bitching about me lol. It’s MY opinion, so go eat a dick if you don’t like it.
All the constant flames I get recently just prove how fucking salty you assholes are. Not gonna give a shit if I sound like a douche anymore, especially with others like Vaffle who have an EVEN STRONGER WEAPON AT +12, yet don’t get much hate if any at all.
Just kiss my ass.
Also, DiE doesn’t have resources? Pfft, you can use your DP like 400 extra MP and RoF starts you of with some…
LOGIC
we work for our first catch?
is this a bad joke?
DiE?
DiE pretty much needs to combo or get comboed before getting DP? right? RoF does give you some but you cant fckin use it at the start of the match? hence comes the work for the first catch? blindly hating even tho you dont even know how he works? Even if he gets DP when comboed may I remind you that Add is paper? like 1 fcking combo and you’re at 1/4 HP? everyones be like “OH LOOK DIE IS BROKEN HUURRR DURR” this isnt DiE’s first release brokenness, move on hes not at the top tier pvp to even complain about this much. Funny how a +11 DiE gets outdamaged by a +9 RF/CN/SD and now this. TBH every character has its own brokenness, and little skills to play now.
heck Im even more at ease playing BM/GrM/GA/CN in pvp nowadays and I can play them aggresively easy. Now Im forced to play defensively in DiE because all of his skill range is so nerfed down sometimes it misses right in your fckin face? I remember playing him before and was broken as hell and didnt even break a sweat. and people here still thinks hes at top tier pvp? fck this HAHAHA. and there’s some dude here thinks that shadow step isn’t broken. man playing BM now is like walk in the park
lmao he was garbage before the nerfs now hes just the worst class in the game now
I don’t want to start up anything, but I read a few of the arguments here and I want to make some points.
1. DiE did deserve SOME kind of nerf in PVP. I’m not saying he should be nerfed into the ground or “Add is the only unbalanced character” I’m just pointing out that he did deserve some kind of nerf to PVP in general. Personally I believe they should have a major rework of the game and lower damage standards back to what they were before renewals. But we can’t all get what we want,
2. The PVE nerf for DiE was not as bad as you think. Sure it was a nerf, but there’s really nothing wrong with nerfing PVE in the first place? PVE is a system in the game just as PVP is and people are simply abusing that system, so it will be balanced, just as PVP is. Of course going back to my first point, Add is obviously not the only issue in the game.
3. To those that claim Add requires intricate skill and thought process, get off your high horse. Add in both PVE and PVP is specifically designed for beginners to work with, as stated by the producers of him several times in interviews. I’m not saying “oh DiE is ez git gud” or anything like that. I’m just saying in terms of actual design even BY THE PRODUCERS, he was designed to be a learning character, with easy access to his skills and generally created to give beginners the chance to win, even if they have a much lower skill level. This is because in the earlier patches, if you weren’t good enough, you simply had no chance, and it would drastically lower your potential in the game, while punishing you for trying to improve.
4. Add’s statting department is not bad. Balancing stats is a thing he definitely has to do, but all characters have a built in normalization called “Statting Level”. Every character works differently, and Add, DiE specifically, has a relatively good Statting Level. This means that what he puts into his actual stats show up more in his gameplay. Of course some people can just turbo Maximization or Critical or Additional Damage, but having a balanced stat spread is honestly stronger than just maxing 1 stat. Additionally, he already has relatively good damage and speed just for being a DiE, and his resource gain is pretty good. This is because he essentially has 2 mana bars, maxing out at I believe 800 MP/DP (correct me if I’m wrong). When you calculate how much MP he gains, you have to count in that 3–4 DP gain he gets for every hit.
5. For those that say he has no damage now, and only feeds MP, change how you play him. If you think your specific style is not working, then change it. Even if you feed MP, learn how to avoid some things, and if you can’t simply change what skills you use at what times. Bait your opponent in PVP, and learn good skill setups for PVE. If you already know these things, then the damage nerfs and range/SoT nerfs shouldn’t be much of an issue
—————————————————-
If you read this post I sincerely hope you consider the points I’ve made and change your approach on the DiE nerfs, and I do not intend to start an argument as I will likely not even come back to check this patch since I have seen all the information I need. Thank you for reading and have a nice day. -Phikage
Funny how I pretty much said the same shit and I get flamed hard for it lol
Why isn’t there a “Give this man a Fucking cookie! button” because you actually deserve it.
This just goes to show that people just hate change in general. It’s the curse majority of the entire gaming community and even in real life ,we never want to accept change or wish to get out of our comfort zones to become better gamers.
LEARN TO ADAPT!!! DAMMIT!!!
alright ill adapt ill adapt to this change because il lsay this if i get called a scrub by someone who i beat ill come back here to u peoplle :v because ive adapted and ill TRY to adapt again to this and if ur gonna say that could say the same for some people who have tried to defend their class too when they got nerfed now here i go to go adapt to this player base
plus i find it pretty annoying how some people tell DiEs to get off there high horses when we got some players saying ez when they survive with like 1/4 or 1/3rd of their HP gone or having 10% or some shit or they resort to bull shit running around the map
but yea im done now ouo probably because im pretty it has atleast happened to one person or will happen where they got a random person saying ez when it show in there HP it wasnt
dam im not even salty about these nerfs cause i know everyone is gonna get fked soon,, im just sad rip die i hope they dont fk LP that much ;(
Isn’t +10-12 weapon with 80-100% maximize > nerfs? hahah
Why did KOG do all these nerfs when they can kill DiE just making him to impossible to use skill using DP
Cause then he wouldnt have anything to do with his DP thats different from the other 2 versions of Add. As all the Adds do different things with DP and cant use them to the same effectiveness.
Everyone here complaining about DiE and I’m just here… sitting with my CBS and VP corpses ?
Just want to add a quick comment about that SoT nerf. I think it’s really funny how they continue to nerf that hot garbage. Does anyone actually use that skill in pvp besides 3’s? The Time Traveller debuff was pretty much the final nail in the coffin for this poor skill. I found myself barely using it when it was good just because of the cost associated with it.
So you’re telling me I can spend 94mp/dp for a buff that can be easily outrun if your opponent in pvp has even a fraction of intelligence… And by the off chance I actually get to proc it, I get debuffed for all my cooldowns, lose whatever tanked dp/mp/resource… Just 94mp/dp to become a sitting duck or waste the resources completely? Fuck right off! This doesn’t really sound like a buff skill anymore. Maybe if it was like, 30mp/dp I would consider it. I’m just happy I can say this nerf didn’t affect me in the slightest. Never using this skill anyway, so just keep nerfing away! I await the time you announce that you’re bringing the time traveller debuff back to the ungodly amount it was before and totally disregard the enhanced ability. Your team seems to like doing that. Creating a passive or enhance and then doing a complete 180 and saying “Oops! Didn’t mean to do that. So we’ll keep the passive there, but we’ll make the skill shittier so it acts like the way it did before the passive!” Plus when you guys decide “Oh, it’s still too OP. Let’s make the most you can revive with 10% hp in pvp!” That will be fucking hilarious! Just delete SoT already. It’s the most garbage skill in regards to the revive effect. Also, before somebody says “You can use it for cooldown reduction too! It has two effects! Not just the revive is important…” I feel like if you’re using 94mp/dp for cooldown reduction in pvp, you don’t really care about resources. Anyway, just thought I’d add my opinion. Just gonna get used to these nerfs either way. I just hope they nerf a few of the other problem characters such as Ara, Crimson Avenger specifically. We’ll see what they decide to do… =P